Azdel Composite Ipo Luan Behind Fiberglass

Azdel composite ipo luan behind fiberglass



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WoodGlue

Los Angeles / Montana

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westend wrote:

not allowing any thermal break between the frame and the interior paneling


Are you talking about normal gaps in which fiberglass insulation is usually placed?

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Pockets of air?

Thanks

westend

Shorewood, MN

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WoodGlue wrote:

I heard back from Coachmen and this was their reply:
Quote:

Good morning,

In the past, luan was used as a substrate material on sidewalls.

Freedom Express sidewalls are now built with the Azdel composite substrate panels which have the advantages listed in the Freedom Express brochure.

Steve B.



There is a reason why so many more RV builders are moving towards Azdel and away from wood and luaun.

Wood and luaun cannot be trusted in my opinion.


If it's an issue of trust, the first thing to consider, as has been mentioned, is the quality of the manufacturing process. Would you have the same fuzzy feelings about aluminum frames and fiberglass if the TT started to fall apart?

I don't think that there is any argument that an aluminum frame is superior to a wood frame if there is a water problem, the aluminum is going to outlast wood.

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But, if a water intrusion problem does occur, what are the differences for repair method and costs? In that situation the wood frame and aluminum siding TT is going to be cheaper and easier to repair.

The awful truth about how the vacuum bonded construction process is not giving us users a type of product we would like to have is that the Mfg's are using a cheap polystyrene block between the frame pieces and not allowing any thermal break between the frame and the interior paneling.

By using a superior mateial that would have less heat transfer and an interior thermal break, we would all have a more comfortable trailer and energy use would be lessened.

Azdel composite ipo luan behind fiberglass

I don't have the ambition to crunch the numbers but I would think a per unit price increase would be in the order of less than $50. That $50 would be recovered in lower energy consumption in the first year of ownership. The reason it's not done can only be that the Mfg.

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would rather have that $50 in their pocket. Another issue with vacuum bonding is the delamination issue and that is continually discussed in this forum and others.

Sorry if I eroded your trust in the aluminum frame but I think future owners should be aware of the issues involved.




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WoodGlue

Los Angeles / Montana

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goducks10 wrote:

You can go to the Coachmen web site and click on some of the brochures and they have a cut away of their units.

Water and Wood Don't Mix

They use Azdel for backing on their fiberglass units. They use wood for the trusses and luan for the floor in some models. I would still be worried about a leak causing the fiberglass to delam from the Azdel. To me thats the biggest problem wether you have luan or Azdel. It will still be more expensive to fix a delam side on a fiberglass unit as opposed to wood and aluminum. At least it seems that way.

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Never had to do either. But removing the aluminum siding is a lot easier than replacing the sidewall on a fiberglass unit.



I'm not certain, but I believe that the fiberglass can be sanded down then recoated and I believe that most of the manufacturers using Azdel in their mfg process are using it in an interior application, not bonded directly underneath the fiberglass.

As with anything, I could be wrong - but this is my understanding of the process. I'm going to contact Coachmen again and see what they have to say, as well as Jayco.

Lance, I don't need to contact as I know how they're made.

In any event, like I was saying - to each his own, but give me laminated block foam insulation within an aluminum frame and finished off with Azdel any day of the week!

WoodGlue

A short video on a fiberglass restoration and repair (with a crack in a boat)

Fiberglass Repair

**edited to add YouTube video

* This post was edited 10/17/12 09:27am by WoodGlue *

jsdad

Central WI

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Mike Up wrote:

Also Jayco Jay Flight "SWIFT" models are a budget version of the Jay Flight models and do NOT use aluminium framing.

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They are lighter because they lack some of the features of the Jay Flight models. Plus they have a lower rated GVWR rating which could be smaller frames and axles.

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The 3 SWIFT models all have wood framing.



You are correct. My bad... Thank you for pointing that out.
Had to go back and look close at the cut-a-way and read the info.

This is from the Jayco Swift brochure discription of the wall construction. The roof truses are 2x2 wood as well.

"WALL CONSTRUCTION
2" x 2" wooden studs: Creates Jay Flight’s long-lasting framework
Hand-tucked and glued fiberglass insulation (R-7): Prevents insulation from sagging over time (vs.

blanket-insulation technique), while helping increase insulation value near studs
Extra-wide corner seals: Prevents leaks on the corner molds, baggage and entrance doors and window seals"

goducks10

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WoodGlue wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

You can go to the Coachmen web site and click on some of the brochures and they have a cut away of their units.

They use Azdel for backing on their fiberglass units.

Freedom Express 192RBS

They use wood for the trusses and luan for the floor in some models. I would still be worried about a leak causing the fiberglass to delam from the Azdel. To me thats the biggest problem wether you have luan or Azdel.

It will still be more expensive to fix a delam side on a fiberglass unit as opposed to wood and aluminum. At least it seems that way. Never had to do either.

Azdel composite ipo luan behind fiberglass

But removing the aluminum siding is a lot easier than replacing the sidewall on a fiberglass unit.



I'm not certain, but I believe that the fiberglass can be sanded down then recoated and I believe that most of the manufacturers using Azdel in their mfg process are using it in an interior application, not bonded directly underneath the fiberglass.

As with anything, I could be wrong - but this is my understanding of the process.

I'm going to contact Coachmen again and see what they have to say, as well as Jayco.

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Lance, I don't need to contact as I know how they're made.

In any event, like I was saying - to each his own, but give me laminated block foam insulation within an aluminum frame and finished off with Azdel any day of the week!

WoodGlue

A short video on a fiberglass restoration and repair (with a crack in a boat)

Fiberglass Repair

**edited to add YouTube video


Go to page 13 andit shows Azdel behind the fiberglass ext panel.

I haven't looked at any Coachmen TT/5'ers but the construction certainly looks well thought out. Would like to see the interior construction and quality of materials. Other than that they seem like a really nice line of towables.


http://www.coachmenrv.com/models/literature/chaparralbrochure.pdf

WoodGlue

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We were talking about the Coachmen Freedom Express LTZ.

A 5th wheel may be a totally different kind of construction.

Azdel composite ipo luan behind fiberglass



Mike Up

NW Indiana

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Also Jayco Jay Flight "SWIFT" models are a budget version of the Jay Flight models and do NOT use aluminium framing.

They are lighter because they lack some of the features of the Jay Flight models. Plus they have a lower rated GVWR rating which could be smaller frames and axles. The 3 SWIFT models all have wood framing.


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Previous 2012 Jayco Jay Flight 26BH.

WoodGlue

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I just Googled "aluminum rot" and it came back with the following images:

Images Of "Aluminum Rot"

vs good old fashioned wood rot images:

Images Of Wood Rot

There's really no comparison!

Wood rots, dry or wet!

WoodGlue

Los Angeles / Montana

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MikeUP wrote:

The 3 SWIFT models all have wood framing


Don't forget the fluffy fiberglass insulation that tends to settle into clumps after a while.

Where is your "R" value on that?

Give me vacuum bonded block foam insulation, inside an aluminum frame lined with Azdel any day!

goducks10

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WoodGlue wrote:

Hitch Pin wrote:

WoodGlue wrote:

In order to take full advantage of the aluminum and block foam insulation, I would check and make sure anything that I was going to buy was also manufactured with Azdel and NOT luaun.

Azdel composite ipo luan behind fiberglass

Luaun will rot if there is a leak, whereas Azdel won't.

More Information About Azdel



This is what Coachmen says about our new Freedom Express LTZ.

Freedom Express LTZ conventional and hybrid travel trailers boast vacuum bond laminated sidewalls with durable Lami-Lux 1000® fiberglass exteriors backed with Azdel.



1. Alumicage Welded Aluminum Structure

2. Vacuum Bonded Floor and Sidewalls

3.

Azdel composite ipo luan behind fiberglass

Azdel Composite (IPO lauan behind fiberglass)

4. Smooth Fiberglass Exterior Skin

5. Aluminum Framed Openings

I wonder what they mean by (IPO lauan behind fiberglass) on line #3 ?



Time to contact Coachmen directly and ask their technical department what that means exactly.

Stop Action Video Showing Response to Temperature of Plywood and Azdel

It's better to know before plunking down $25,000 (plus $$) on a new TT then finding out you're not getting what you wanted or needed!

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WoodGlue

I've contacted them directly for an answer. As soon as I hear back, I'll post the information!

** edited to add the contact information.



You can go to the Coachmen web site and click on some of the brochures and they have a cut away of their units. They use Azdel for backing on their fiberglass units.

They use wood for the trusses and luan for the floor in some models.

How to get in on pinterest ipo

I would still be worried about a leak causing the fiberglass to delam from the Azdel. To me thats the biggest problem wether you have luan or Azdel. It will still be more expensive to fix a delam side on a fiberglass unit as opposed to wood and aluminum. At least it seems that way. Never had to do either. But removing the aluminum siding is a lot easier than replacing the sidewall on a fiberglass unit.